24. How Mental Health is Affected by Gratitude, Empathy and Mindfulness with Hugh van Cuylenburg

[00:00:00] Jackie Bowker: Give me a lightning round, like a tip on GEM, tip on gratitude, empathy and mindfulness

[00:00:05] Hugh van Cuylenburg: At the end of every single day, write it on a notepad, makes your bed or right in the shower screen door. However you want to do it. What are three things that went well to me today? And the wording’s really important.

[00:00:15] It’s not, it’s not what are three things you’re grateful for because when people do that, not one, they’ll say family, friends, and my house and not two. It’ll be food. Water. And not three ago, I’ll say family again. I say family the second year of being yourself, it gets boring. And so, and it’s also not what are three things that were unbelievable about today?

[00:00:37] It’s just three things that went well. So for me this morning, I had a nice coffee. Last text message from my brother. And my, I saw the sun actually, I’m sick of seeing the sunrise. It’s not that I just want to sleep in, but, um, now the traffic is good on the way to work. Just three small things. And then in time that starts to rewire your brain.

[00:00:54] So you start scanning the world for the positives.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:00] Jackie Bowker: Hi there. Welcome to the field better now, podcast. I’m your host, Jackie Balca. And if you’ve arrived here, no, there is something in here to spark yourself to create a better future in your health, in your career, in your relationships for both yourself and for those around you, just one small action. Step at a time with so much love and gratitude to being your guide.

[00:01:26] Let’s get.

[00:01:34] Jackie back. Hi, everyone. Jackie baggy here, we have such an incredible guest. He is so extremely humble, courageous. And so, so funny. Welcome Hugh van Kyla Berg, who is a two time author. I love his latest book. Let go, and you’ll find out why. I speak on a podcast of father and get this feature Australian 400 meter national record [00:02:00] holder.

[00:02:00] You have to find out how and why amongst many other accolades. He founded the resilience project. We chat about his three pillars, gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness, and some practical tips to help you feel. Based off, he shares some really great strategies, including his favorite from pediatrician, Billy Gabby.

[00:02:18] And we throw in some guts Oak along the way, and lots of laughs for anybody who wants to share a laugh and pick up some well being tips along the way. You do not want to waste this. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Here. We are honored to have you on the podcast today. 

[00:02:33] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Ah, thanks. Johanne very much. Admiring your, I feel like I need to get better greenery.

[00:02:36] I’m looking at your backdrop. Is that a real plant? It looks very real. 

[00:02:40] Jackie Bowker: Oh my gosh. I love his font. This is my dragon. dragon foot, but yeah, it’s gorgeous. It’s probably a little dusty. Oh, it’s absolutely real. And she is like, see where she’s like curling over me and just 

[00:02:53] Hugh van Cuylenburg: amazing. Can you tell that mine plant in the background is very folk 

[00:02:57] Jackie Bowker: tell because it looks like.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:01] Hugh van Cuylenburg: It’s a plastic, something, I don’t know what it is, but it’s very funny. Okay. 

[00:03:05] Jackie Bowker: For so many reasons, the plastic has got to go like that and the connection to what you do and building a strong immune system and balancing biology, it’s not a good fit. 

[00:03:16] Hugh van Cuylenburg: And I would be amazed if any plan could survive in this studio.

[00:03:19] It’s soundproof. It’s like, it’s, it’s like been properly. It’s like, I find it hard to breathe sometimes. So I think a plant would definitely struggled as well. 

[00:03:28] Jackie Bowker: You need to get a Zanzibar. They are like impossible to kill. They’re really super hearty. So, and I can message you 

[00:03:34] Hugh van Cuylenburg: that drawing it down. Now 

[00:03:37] Jackie Bowker: it’s a good induction, like introductory plant to a green thumb of which I am not.

[00:03:41] So I’m just looking. 

[00:03:43] Hugh van Cuylenburg: I can’t believe I’m doing this on your podcast, but I’m actually just Googling Jenzabar. I’ve got the, I’ve got the, I’ve got the country anyway. Well, don’t do it later. I’ll do it like, yeah. Amazing. 

[00:03:53] Jackie Bowker: So here you have written two incredible books now, including your latest let go. And I love that you [00:04:00] talk about it’s time to let go of shame expectation and our addiction to social media.

[00:04:04] Tell me why this book is so important to you? 

[00:04:09] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Well, the quite a few reasons, I think the first thing decided is that the first book that I wrote, it went quite well. As far as it, it really excited. Anyone’s certainly the publisher’s expectations and mine. The second one, I felt a lot more proud of the second one, because it was very, very real and raw written during COVID written during Melbourne’s 265 days.

[00:04:31] Like stage four lockdown and it was hard and I was. Yeah. If the first book I had peaches in my head up, like going to the beach for like three months and writing a lot, you know, the scene in love, actually where that guy’s writing his book out on the river, that was picturing, that was going to be me. And my second book, like, you know, literally printing out pages, having your piled up and like, and it was anything about that.

[00:04:50] It was like waiting till the kids had gone to sleep and then rotting for few hours and then trying to get up early. But the kids would see Cole last year. Anyway, all this stuff was just, it was so [00:05:00] hard, but it was. Time from, it was a very raw, like even the day it came out, I sat up in bed, bolt up, like people doing movies and had this panic of like, oh my God.

[00:05:10] Oh, my God, I cannot believe I’ve told everyone that stuff. Like it was really like when I was riding, I was like just one of the best stories I’ve got to really illustrate this point. And then when it actually came out, I had, I still walk. I saw at the airport the other day on the shelves and I had this like really awkward Sikh feeling of like, oh God, anyone who reads that is going to know all this stuff about me.

[00:05:28] So it’s special to me because it’s a very vulnerable book. The first book of people will say I was so vulnerable. It wasn’t, I’d been telling their stories for 10 years. It wasn’t, it was 10 years of. Yeah, I ride that book in honestly, three months. It was just so quick. Cause I’d been telling stories for so long.

[00:05:43] This book now that is properly vulnerable. So yeah, I’m proud of, I honestly haven’t checked sales. I haven’t checked any charts. I haven’t, I deliberately haven’t asked my publisher any of those questions. I don’t really care for this one. I’m just proud. I wrote it and I’m really proud of all of it so much more than the first book.

[00:05:58] And I doubt it or sell [00:06:00] as well as the first one in as popular, but I’m a lot more proud of it because it’s, it’s a lot more raw and a lot more honest. And you know, not that the first book is dishonest, but it’s stories. I’ve told that many times that it wasn’t hard to write them down. These were difficult.

[00:06:12] So you haven’t read any reviews and nothing. I just, I’m just proud. I’m just proud of not doing anything to tarnish that. So I don’t think I’ve answered your question there, Jackie, but it’s special because it’s really raw. 

[00:06:23] Jackie Bowker: You’ve absolutely answered my question. And you made me think of another one. A lot of the work that I do is helping people feel better so they can be their authentic self and really standing their integrity.

[00:06:35] And we talk a lot in my work about being vulnerable. Why is it so important? Especially these days to be 

[00:06:43] Hugh van Cuylenburg: vulnerable? I love that Christian, especially on the second pot, like these days, my answer to that. Yeah, you could interview 20 different people and give you 20 different answers. But for me, my answer is that it really leads to like authentic connection.

[00:06:58] And that to me [00:07:00] is one of the main things we’re missing right now in our world is I just feel like one of the issues is we’re just so lonely. I think most people are very lonely. We don’t, the more privileged we are, the more we build up those big walls around us, both physically and metaphorically. And, you know, the wealthier we become the bigger our house gets the bigger the walls get, and we buy more things for ourselves and we become very insular.

[00:07:20] And I think it’s disconnecting, whereas when you are truly vulnerable. And so, so that’s sorry, I’m, I’m, I’m doing this, I’m answering the question in a strange way. The result of the second part of the question is because I think one of the big problems right now is, is that we’re disconnected and we’re so disconnected from each other and we’re put on the earth to connect.

[00:07:35] That’s why we’re here, but we’re not really connected anymore. So when you’re vulnerable, when you read. Share your story and you let people in and you let people know exactly how you’re really going. Cause at which very few people will do it connects us. We have seen it on our podcast over and over and over again, people who have been vulnerable for the first time.

[00:07:55] And you see this rush of, I think it’s love silicone over there. I feel [00:08:00] this strong emotion of love and the messages I write us after the podcast about, um, like reset a loving message of love for catch-up. We’re going to talk about that more. And I can’t believe how amazing that was. I would never thought I’d tell that story, but I didn’t, it feels really.

[00:08:12] It always comes to that vulnerability hung over the next day, but then I get past that and I feel really great again, but. When you’re vulnerable with the right people at the right time, it really connects you to them. And that’s what the world needs right now is connection. And I think there are so many reasons we’re disconnected.

[00:08:26] I, I mean, we can go into that as well, but I think for me, the really obvious one is our devices and social media that are just ripping us away from each other. For, as in, as far as physical, face-to-face like actual connections and ripping us away from that all the time constantly. I mean, there are quite a few, that’s really one of the really big ones.

[00:08:44] That’s why we need connection so much. And the way we connect is through, I, I, I know I told this story in the book, so I apologize to anyone who’s read the book, but I ran a session with a footie club and the IFL, the port Adelaide football club. And it was all the title was, well, why don’t we call the session?

[00:08:59] I think we just called it authentic [00:09:00] connection and it just, all it needed was the pliers to just tell a story from their life. And it was a very safe session for them. The doctor was there, the psychologist is there and it was really. Do you want to share something? And it could be very scifi if I wanted it to be so something really psychic present, I’d talk about something other than literally lent in and told us some really full-on stories.

[00:09:19] And I couldn’t, the first player got up and did a really he’s named Zack butters. He’s a 19 year old and he told a story about his sister’s ice addiction. And it was, and I’m not breaking any confidentiality here. He spoke about this in the precedent, the mayor a lot, and it was the most extraordinary thing to say.

[00:09:35] A group of men get up after him and then share stories from their life. You know, they see each other, every single day they share a locker room, they spend their lives together and they learning all this stuff about each other. Some of them was really connecting and some of them through are going through the exact same issue at the exact same time, but didn’t even know they’re sitting next to each other every day of the year in the locker room.

[00:09:54] And it was just huge. So right. People the right time is also an important one as I’m sure you’d probably talk about, but [00:10:00] you can’t just go, okay. I might just tweak my heartbreaking story to the world and we’ll just take it from there, but it’s, you know, people that, you know, When you really open up and tell them how you are really going, they will basically validate what you’ve just said.

[00:10:14] They’ll say I understand that must be so hard. Thanks for sharing. I feel better for having heard that and you must, I understand why you feel that way, that kind of stuff, not poor you or not. I’ll come on there won’t be that bad or people are doing worse at the moment and, you know, just be grateful for what you got.

[00:10:28] You don’t want that you want someone who really valid. What you’re feeling and what you’ve just been through. W when I everyone’s got someone like that in their life, I think where they can turn to and really sort of be vulnerable, I guess. Gee, I’m giving you some very long answers today. I know this is a short form podcast.

[00:10:43] I’ve probably taken up all the, all the time. The two questions 

[00:10:46] Jackie Bowker: everything’s so perfect. I love it. I was thinking about. Parents. And I know you talk a lot about modeling and whether it’s to your children or to a loved one, or what’s one really practical tip that people can put [00:11:00] in place straight away to try and make a connection with another 

[00:11:05] Hugh van Cuylenburg: person.

[00:11:06] I don’t feel like the most qualified person to answer this question. After my efforts this morning with my five-year-old son, I, uh, I throw a t-shirt in his face today. 

[00:11:16] Jackie Bowker: Tell me what you would have done, what you’ll do next time? 

[00:11:19] Hugh van Cuylenburg: I think she slept downstairs. I woke up. Standing over me at five in the morning, screaming about his runny nose and smashing stuff of it.

[00:11:28] I, it was, he had a rough wheel, a rough morning this morning and I, after an hour and a half of it, I saw rotation. And I’m so if I was the question, how do you get your kids to, to make a 

[00:11:37] Jackie Bowker: ready model? 

[00:11:39] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Yeah, I think with kids, I think one of the most powerful things I’ve learned from this, and this is not for me, is that who you are.

[00:11:46] I called Dr. Billy Garvey, who should totally get on your podcast is really wonderful. Uh, Dr. Billy Garvey, I’ll send you his details later. He said this to me. He said, this is one of most powerful things I’ve learned throughout podcasts, but also as a parent, when your kids come to you [00:12:00] with any issue or anyone.

[00:12:01] Realized through our conversation on the podcast. It’s not just kids eat anyone, but when someone comes to you and they tell you they’ll open up and tell you something that they’re really struggling with, especially as parents, we’re so quick to try and solve the problem. Like we just, because it comes from a place of love, but we will say, you know, maybe it’s kids a bit older than mine will come home and say, I didn’t make a netball team.

[00:12:21] And you say, that’s okay. Nipple. Is that your favorite sport? Or maybe if you play well in the practice, next training, then, then you’ll get peaked or over and worse. I’ll have a chat to the coach and we’ll see if we can. It doesn’t make the individual feel better if we’re trying to solve the problem. What they want is just is to have their feeling validated.

[00:12:37] So what you’re saying is I know what that feels like I’ve been left out before is the worst feeling. I hate that and I know what you’re feeling and I’m so sorry. You feel like that’s is really bad and then you can help them articulate what the emotion is. So what are you feeling right now? And if they’re able to tell you, I feel.

[00:12:55] Yeah, I left out, I feel confused or I feel hurt or I feel embarrassed or whatever it [00:13:00] is, then again, it validated that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I think if I had been left out of the team, I thought I was going to picked in. I would feel exactly the same way. And then after that, you don’t have to be, if you want, and you can then sort of try and help them solve the problem.

[00:13:11] I know a lot of what you do is helping executives with burnout and stuff like that. And I, I was in a situation and. Last year where I was so burnt out, I couldn’t have been more if it was for the second year in a row as well, we thought it wouldn’t happen again, but it did. I think he was writing the second book and then all of a sudden, the world opened up just before Christmas.

[00:13:31] And we tried to fit a national tour into a month basically. And I was like, I haven’t done any public speaking. That’s not on his zone for like a year, so I’m ready to go, you know, like, well for six months, I’m ready to go back. And I remember going to someone who I work with, he’s amazing. He’s our CEO.

[00:13:47] He’s an incredible guy called Ben. And he’s just, he’s phenomenal at what he does. And I told him how I was feeling and how burnt out, burnt out I was. And he really, he’s just such a caring person. And you just tried so hard to fix. He pretty much got [00:14:00] his calendar out and goes right out. Let’s do what we can do here.

[00:14:01] We need to work out what we can reschedule, what we can and you went straight into fix it mode, which I guess is probably what I needed to happen by moving feeling very. I just didn’t feel good and I didn’t know why. And I was like, I don’t know why, but I don’t. I just, this is about me feel shit that we’re doing.

[00:14:17] Like, we’re just all of a sudden, we’re going through a calendar again, we’re lining up shows that are coming up and what we could move around and what we could push to 2022. And I just felt really shit afterwards. And then literally two days later, we had Dr. Billy Garvey on the podcast and he’s saying, you know, develop.

[00:14:30] And I thought, gosh, and so I, I spoke, I spoke to Ben and I was like, oh yeah, definitely. I can, I can definitely do that. That makes a lot of sense. And you know, the next time. I remember the next time I hear you guys earlier this year, we looked at my calendar as a bit busy then I’d sort of, both of us had kind of wanted just things had popped up from everywhere.

[00:14:47] And, um, I was telling him how I was feeling and I was trying not to smile. Cause I was thinking, this is like, this is way back here again. And I’ve also told you what I need from you and any of us, he goes, I’m listening to what you’re saying. I listened to [00:15:00] every word you’ve said and I had, it was like, It was like textbook.

[00:15:02] Like it, listen, he was like saying exactly what I said I need for him. So, so, but I see with my kids as well, you know, like with my kids when well, more my five-year-old my two year old is not quite there yet as far as being to express what she wants and what she needs, but when my five-year-old is upset and I.

[00:15:18] Validating, we get a much better response than throwing a t-shirt in his face. 

[00:15:25] Jackie Bowker: I’m glad I think Billy would be glad to hear that. 

[00:15:29] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Absolutely. 

[00:15:31] Jackie Bowker: Thank you for sharing that and, and being so vulnerable about throwing a t-shirt in your five-year-old space and talking about throwing t-shirts in faces. Let’s talk about oxytocin.

[00:15:43] I’m a scientist. I’m a total nerd. I love geeking out, especially about hormones and neurotransmitters. So I love that you talk about oxytocin because we actually don’t talk about it enough. And I think it’s not very mainstream knowledge that oxytocin up-regulates our [00:16:00] balances, our hormones. I think if people knew that if you know, perimenopausal women yeah.

[00:16:04] Chitosan Belden’s is hormones. They’d be showing a whole lot more fiction. So what I love about oxytocin, which is the love hormone, I’ll get you to talk more about that is that it actually builds really strong or stronger immune systems. So your work, your body of work is dedicated to building really strong immune systems.

[00:16:21] What do you want people to know about oxytocin and how to make more of it? 

[00:16:26] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Yeah, so I guess that’s a great introduction, oxytocin. I didn’t know all that stuff about the immune system. So that’s really. Well, I might not actually, even better than that. It’s such a big part of what we talk about, but is that through the vagal nerve that that happens?

[00:16:37] Is that like, is the vagal nerve play a part there or not? Well, our 

[00:16:40] Jackie Bowker: hormones are made now gut, so yeah, it’s integrally connected with all of our hormones in the body. So it up-regulates our hormones. And then, yeah, they’re all produced in the gut. So, and the gut represents the majority of our immune system 

[00:16:56] Hugh van Cuylenburg: and we make healthier food options is I got better at [00:17:00] making them.

[00:17:01] Jackie Bowker: Now you’re talking my language here. It was one in all. I watched so many things of yours to like binge on you before this interview. And there was one that I call that where you were like, we’re eating way too much sugar. So yeah, absolutely. Like if you eat an anti-inflammatory diet, so basically if you eat whole food, if you eat real food, so animal products, if you choose to eat them nuts and seeds and fruits and veggies, what that does.

[00:17:26] Feed the microbes in your gut and you’ve got represents your immune system. Does that answer your 

[00:17:31] Hugh van Cuylenburg: yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. That’s it’s all, it’s so fascinating. I’ve right now, my life I’m eating healthier than I’ve ever eaten before. Um, so I finished, I’m a runner or a sprinter, like I do athletics, masters athletics, and the season finished a month ago and I always give myself a couple of weeks just to eat whatever I want and not care as much about my food.

[00:17:50] And it’s funny. It only lasted. Like I got, actually I got myself a month. I was, I’ll give yourself a month. And it only lasted like a week because I just didn’t feel couldn’t wait to a patient and I [00:18:00] wanted and doughnuts and like, just as much as I wanted, but I just wasn’t feeling, I just felt a bit yucky and a bit sluggish and a bit slow and a bit, not like athletic I’d spend mentally.

[00:18:09] I just, and so I had this thought in my head of like, gosh, it’s so. I mean, I think most people know this by now, but what we’re, our diet has a big impact on our mental health, but I felt it in real time, like end of the day, I just didn’t feel good. And the only thing I’d done differently was I had a toasted ham and cheese sandwich for breakfast.

[00:18:25] And then for lunch, I just had like pasta. And then, you know, for afternoon tea, I had a doughnut and then for dinner, I like a chicken katsu, Curry, you know, like all really nice food, but I just didn’t feel. After, you know, a couple of years of eating really well for the first time alive. It just, yeah. So I think,

[00:18:47] Jackie Bowker: yeah. And we’ll see where the food for just a little bit though, because you know, the gut and the brain were one organ, just one grew up in one grade down. So, you know, I think your work, I love complimenting my body of work in your body of work because [00:19:00] when you, so that binge let’s call it that or an assault, let’s go about.

[00:19:07] All of those foods, create sugar in the body and you know, sugar is inflammatory. It’s one of the most inflammatory and it’s, you know, it’s a drug. And so what happens is it damages the gut, the lining of the gut and the gut and the brain being one organ lining. When the lining of the gut is damaged, the lining of the brain is damaged.

[00:19:25] And what happens then is. The food, even broccoli or a piece of beetroot or something super, super healthy, a real food can make its way in through that perforated lining into the bloodstream and no amount of food is supposed to be in the bloodstream. So our immune system, all of a sudden goes like crazy.

[00:19:42] Hugh van Cuylenburg: That makes sense. Yeah, totally. And what happens when our immune system goes crazy as in, we get sick or 

[00:19:47] Jackie Bowker: all sorts of things. So, you know, I always tell people if you experience gut imbalances, like as in you feel uncomfortable bloating or swollen belly or something like that, or, you know, gas, you know, anything like those symptoms, diarrhea, [00:20:00] constipation, you’re one of the lucky ones.

[00:20:02] It’s the symptoms. Don’t relate to gut imbalances, like things you talk about, like anxiety, like overwhelm, all of those things directly connected to what’s on the end of your fork. And as well, I would build on that and say, it’s not what you eat. It’s how you eat. So if you’re not feeling resilient, if you’re feeling anxious and overwhelmed and you can’t digest food in that state, so it’s going by directionally.

[00:20:30] Hugh van Cuylenburg: I’ve found and we’re going a massive tangent here, but I found the best thing for me to do for my overall health, not talking about my finished, but my overall health, these two exercise in the morning is still like an eye in the reason for that. It’s very simple. And I was, so there is no oversight angry this morning and through my t-shirt and my son’s face, which I feel like this is really not good.

[00:20:50] My brownie meeting this, but it happened. It’s because like I had set my alarm for five 30 this morning, so I could exercise for now, before anyone woke up. And I was up with my daughter three times [00:21:00] last night, one o’clock, three o’clock and four o’clock. And then my son’s email face at five 30 screaming at me.

[00:21:04] And I knew I be able to exercise because when I exercise in the morning, I just crave good foods like art crave, like someone who would have done doughnut as my favorite food. Someone put it down in front of me. I would not be interested in it. I just want to have something it makes to really replenish, to be properly with what I’ve just done.

[00:21:20] And then it makes you wanna drink heaps of water throughout the day when I’ve exercised in the morning. And I get tired around 8 30, 9 o’clock at night. So I go to bed earlier and I sleep so much better. I go to sleep before midnight and those three things, when there’s the obvious benefits of exercise, I just feel so much happier I’m done in the morning, but that to me has been.

[00:21:40] Like when you’re sprinting, municipal got little, like, um, what are they called? Little triggers, like, like get your arms to here and that’ll take care of everything else. We’ll get your knees to this point here and that’ll take care of everything else with your running form. So may exercise is my trigger point for the whole day.

[00:21:54] Like, get this done. Don’t have to destroy yourselves every morning. Just get moving, get active. [00:22:00] And then for me, this is the estimate and then I’ll eat well, then I’ll drink heaps of water and I’ll sleep well. And that is more than half the, that. 

[00:22:07] Jackie Bowker: Well, I love what you talking about here, because what you’re talking about is a sample size of one, and we all need to create this bio individualized approach because you know, the thought of new sprinting in athletics.

[00:22:18] Like for me, that’s, that’s really not my happy place, but at five o’clock in the morning, I do go for a sunrise walk with my dog. So, um, Sorry about the oxytocin then, and you’re creating so much oxytocin doing, you know, your love, what you’re passionate about, and you’ve worked out tapping into your connected to your intuition, all these things that, that get you in your, and keep you in your happy place.

[00:22:41] A really good learning there for other people that if you can work out, what makes you happy? Like what brings you joy and do more of that? That’s functional 

[00:22:50] Hugh van Cuylenburg: medicine. Yeah, totally. Yeah. That’s amazing. Thanks for helping me through that. I feel like I’ve interviewed you here now, and I’ve learned more[00:23:00] 

[00:23:00] about oxytocin. I’ll try and do it in 10 minutes. I know there’s a short form, so.

[00:23:10] So she does. And for me, I’ll talk about very simply that. So one of our key pillars is empathy. When you feel what someone else feels psychologically, and the research says that the more empathetic you are, the more likely you are to act in a kind way. And the neuroscience behind kindness is life-changing.

[00:23:24] And it says, when you do something kind for someone else mean know many things you can do. That one of the things, when you do something kind for someone else, your brain realizes, well, maybe it’s not your brain. I don’t know. Maybe I’ve got this wrong, but you can pick me up if I’m wrong here, but they’re buying releases, oxytocin, which I’ve heard psychologists call them so many things that the connecting hormone, the bonding hormone, the joy hormone, the love hormone, the happy hormone.

[00:23:44] And I’m not talking about righteous acts of kindness. I’m talking about small things, you know, shedding someone, a coffee, holding the door on someone, letting someone to traffic, you know, giving some money to a homeless person or a boss score or whatever it is. Those little things now. Whilst it’s good for the other person involved.

[00:23:59] It [00:24:00] also it’s really good for you. I was talking about this. Literally. I was doing a presentation to brain surgeons, neurosurgeons, literally brain surgeons all back in one of them put his hand up and I’d been telling him a story about a kid who sleeps on the floor in a developing country and very poor.

[00:24:14] And he said, and I talk about him being the happiest person I’ve ever met. And he said, Was that kid you spoke about? Was he happy? Obviously he can’t. And I said, without exaggeration, I think he’s the kindest person in my entire life. And he said from my point of view, what I know about the brain, that is why so happy because Brian wouldn’t discriminate and I say, what do you mean wouldn’t discriminate?

[00:24:31] And he said, well, if he does something kind for someone else’s Brian, doesn’t say, sorry about you sleep on a dirt floor. There’s no running water here. You don’t get oxytocin. He said, if you do something, he said this before COVID he said, if you do something nice to someone else, no matter what you’re going through, he said, we always have access to joy and happiness, and it comes through doing something for someone else, which I thought was really nice going from someone far more qualified and far more intelligent than myself, you know, Joe, that was great.

[00:24:56] So. 

[00:24:57] Jackie Bowker: You’re way too humble. I really love that a [00:25:00] brain surgeon has said that that’s really beautiful. 

[00:25:03] Hugh van Cuylenburg: I mean, he did straight after that side. Good luck convincing me, Marvin, this is good for me, but, but yes, he was a, it was all over empathy. That’s for sure. 

[00:25:12] Jackie Bowker: Well, and I know you’ve explained this so many times, but talk about your three 

[00:25:17] Hugh van Cuylenburg: pillars.

[00:25:18] Yeah. I have the lovely acronym by chance of Jim and gratitude, empathy and mindfulness. And I’m just speaking about empathy, but gratitude. Really for me, it’s just the ability to pay attention to what you’ve got. Not worry about what you don’t have. I mean, many other definitions out there, but for me, that’s kind of what it looks like practically in most people’s lives.

[00:25:35] We, so many of us live off this model of happiness called the Ethan then model of happiness, which is don’t. We all do it in Salah. I still do it. I talk about it all the time, but I still do it. And it’s where we say. If I buy this car, then I feel happy. Or if I get this promotion than I felt happy, or if I get really fit, you know, then I feel happy.

[00:25:52] Or if we buy this house, then we’ll feel happy. There’s nothing wrong with wanting all those things. I mean, they’re all really healthy things to aspire towards. [00:26:00] You. You cannot attach happiness. That don’t work because then you get the nice new car. And then six months later, someone drives past in a nicer car.

[00:26:09] I actually, if I had that car that I’d feel happy about having to maybe with my fitness, I was like, when I can run this time and I can run the 400 and this speed, I’m just going to feel so unbelievably happy. And about a year later, I got to that speed and all of a sudden it lasted about a day. And then I started looking at a couple seconds quicker.

[00:26:26] And then it was also like when I. That time I’ll look a certain way. And I did, but all of a sudden it wasn’t enough. I needed to look like I was comparing myself to this guy and your listeners can look this guy up, his name’s Karen Clement. He’s an American 400 meter hurdler, the most extraordinary body I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

[00:26:45] And I was like, I need to look like he’s 22 years old or something like he’s a gold medalist. And he was like, I’m 41. And I was like, If I can, I need to look like that. And then I was like, it was ridiculous, but it was like, once that happens, then I’ll feel happy. I know I wouldn’t, I [00:27:00] know I’d get to that and go Rodney, to look even better now.

[00:27:02] Like we all replace what we have with something we don’t have in order to be happy and we’ll do it in some way, shape or form. And it happens from a young age, you know, my son. Last year I’ve watched him at Christmas. He said, I want to get his, he said for Christmas, I want you said it in October. So it was a long flight as well, but he said, he said, I know what I want for Christmas.

[00:27:21] And he’d just been at a friend’s house. Who’s quite well off. And I was like, oh God, here we go. And he said, I want chattering teeth. Now. I said, what is you want chattering teeth, everybody mean, he goes, you wind up those teeth and you let them go. And I walk on the table. Ah, okay. I reckon you’re a chance

[00:27:40] I can get those. And so we got them for him and it’s only talked about for three months. I want chattering teeth, chattering teeth. We’ve read the letter, father Christmas, I reckon your chance. And then he, we got him chatted with father Christmas, got him, chattering teeth for Christmas. He played with it for five minutes and five minutes.

[00:27:54] He hasn’t touched it since, and I was watching going, what the hell? That’s the if and then model of [00:28:00] happiness, we all do it. We do it. We start from a young, we want something to be happy. We get. And then we look around for something else we don’t have. I need to get that. What you gratitude is when you look at what you, I gratitudes where happiness comes from Eric.

[00:28:11] And not that we should always feel happy. That’s not the iron, but gratitudes, when you look at what you already have, we’ve got so much here in Australia and in countries like Australia, but we miss these things all the time, too busy, right. About the stuff we don’t have. So that’s gratitude. We’ve done empathy model.

[00:28:25] That’s a contentious one in that, it’s the one thing I get so many emails about people going, just so you know, I don’t like what you say about mindfulness. It’s not blah, blah, blah. That’s fine. Like everyone’s got different experiences of it for me. It’s the ability to be wherever you are. That’s it. And it’s important because it’s the only thing we really got control over in our lives really is what is happening right now.

[00:28:44] But we’re not really showing. Right. Now, a lot of the time we spend so much of our time thinking about the future or worrying about the past or not that we shouldn’t worry about that. Thinking about the future of the past, we can learn so much from our past and we need to plan for the future, but we’re spending way too much time in both those [00:29:00] places.

[00:29:00] And I think we got to get better at just being, I mean, we’re not bad people, but everyone will know what that feels like. You know, it’s sitting around a data type with the paper you love your partner or your family or your housemates. So. And you realize five minutes later, you actually haven’t listened to it.

[00:29:14] Word. Anyone is saying we’re not bad people, but you’re thinking about an issue that took place at work during the day or the conversation. You’ve got a difficult conversation. I’ve tried the next day. We just got to get better at just being wherever we are, because it’s all we really have in this world is what’s happening.

[00:29:29] Right. 

[00:29:30] Jackie Bowker: In the present and what I would say as well is it’s a muscle. So if your mind is racing and you know, you can’t, you aren’t focused at the moment it’s practice. So give me a lightning round, like a tip on gem, a tip on gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness. 

[00:29:47] Hugh van Cuylenburg: If I could do it this way, I’ll give you two things for each.

[00:29:51] So gratitude, gratitude, simple question. At the end of every single day, write it on a notepad next to your bed, or right in the shower screen door. [00:30:00] However you want to do it. What are three things that went well for me today? And the wording’s really important. It’s not, it’s not what are three things you’re grateful for because when people do that night, one, they’ll say family, friends, and my house and not two.

[00:30:12] It’ll be. So food, water, my car and not three ago. Uh, I’ll say family again. I’ll say family, the second year of bed yourself, it gets boring. And so, and it’s also not what, a three things that are unbelievable about today. It’s just three things that went well. So for me this morning, I had a nice coffee.

[00:30:31] Last text message from my. And my sort of son, actually, I’m sick of seeing the sun rise and not that I just want to sleep influence. Uh, the traffic is good on the way to work, just three small things. So, and then in time that starts to rewire your brain. So start scanning the world for the positives. So that’s the first one, and it only takes like three weeks to a month to start really having an impact because some people say they notice it straight away out a beautiful email from a DM on Instagram, from a lady who has.

[00:30:57] Very very dark place. The night she came to [00:31:00] see my show, I did in country Victoria, and she messaged me after and said, I’m having some really awful thoughts about doing some pretty bad things. And I said, well, let’s get stuck into this. Can you please send me three things every night that went well and I’ll send you mine back.

[00:31:13] And she sent me three back the next night and said, unbelievable. I’m already. I already walked around today, looking out for the good stuff. It’s day one. You said it would take a month it’s day one. I’m already looking out for the good stuff, which is. Really, really nice. So the second way to practice gratitude, I would say to people is to write a letter to someone who’s had an incredibly positive impact on your life and you thank them for that.

[00:31:33] And the research says, overall, life satisfaction goes up, depression, anxiety will go down. Hope goes up. All those things happen purely from writing someone, a letter, you handle it, if you can. And the impact will last year. Like a month later, you’ll, you’ll start to that’s how powerful it is. And you could do one a month.

[00:31:51] You could do 12 for the I’m sure. If I can think of 12 people who they need to think through the impact that I’ve had in their life. And a lot of people listen to this and go, yeah, sounds good. And then I won’t do it, [00:32:00] but for the people who do do it, you watch our specialties. It’s life-changing it is, it’ll take you an hour and it is life-changing and for some people will go, I don’t know if I’d be brave enough to do.

[00:32:11] Right at the letter, just write it and just sit with it for awhile and see how you feel. And then maybe you could just take a photo of it and you could send them as a text message if you don’t want to hand deliver it. But yeah, it was really lovely one. So that’s gratitude, empathy. I’m not gonna lecture people on how to be kind.

[00:32:24] That’s patronizing look out for opportunities to be there for others. I think I’ve been doing recently and not everyone is in a position to just give money by it. I just, I just noticed where I work in Collingwood here in Melbourne. There’s a lot of it’s like the diversity in the wealth gap is just, you know, we’ve got this gentrified, incredible cafes bars, pubs, but also a lot of poverty here and get.

[00:32:47] You know, you can’t walk down Smith’s trip without being asked for money. And I’ve just been withdrawing a bit more than I usually need. Well, I don’t ever withdraw money anymore. I’m always playing on my phone, but I just have noticed self and I’m walking past partners, people going, [00:33:00] sorry, mate, I’ve done it, many cash trumps.

[00:33:01] I’ve got my, um, I know this is how it happened. My local hairdresser only takes cash, which to me is always such an obvious sign that you’re running the tech system. But anyway, he only takes cash and I, um, so I withdrew money the other day. $20 change in the glove box of my car is a roundabout story, but I was driving to the airport and there was a guy who was doing people’s windscreens.

[00:33:23] He was asking for money and I saw him come around and window. I said, Simon, I haven’t got any cash on me. And he goes, oh, that’s okay. And as he did that, I opened up the glove. To prove I didn’t have any cash on me. Like Dawn, any coins on me. I said, there’s no coins on me. And he did, there was a $20 notes sitting on top of it.

[00:33:38] And I went, saw him out of how many coins. And he like looked at the $20 and he kind of looked at me with this smirk on his face. And I was like, yeah, okay. Now I go this $20 note and you put his hand on his heart and he’s had tears streaming down his face and he goes, I’ll wash your wings. Twice. And I went, no, no, once.

[00:33:56] It’s fine, man. He has no I’m doing it twice. And he put his cat back. Like he meant business [00:34:00] and he squirts the windows go and he starts like, he still tears down his face and he’s like, close my window. And I was like, my Monster’s fine. Seriously. And he goes, no, no, no. And he covers it in soap. And then they learned the light went green and I had to go to soap everywhere.

[00:34:12] I couldn’t say I was gay. It was filters. So I tell you now I did that on, um, it’s a couple of weeks ago. I did not choose. Pausing while I was buzzing for the next few days. From that one experience, like seeing I drive going, of course, like $20 for this. Usually we go, ah, I’ll give them $2 or I’ll just wanted it.

[00:34:31] Now. I’m not saying everyone should give away all their money all the time. I know that I’m in a privileged position. I’m able to do that, but I went and took out a hundred dollars, $20 on me. And I just, for the next little while I just went someone else. I like, you know, I see $20 and you know, we can’t do it at the time.

[00:34:45] But I saw the look on these people’s faces. I’ve given my all five $20 nights. I’ve seen the look on their faces and it’s not about me, but as a side effect of helping those people cannot tell you how it changed my day to see the look on [00:35:00] their face. And I’m not telling this story. So people go, oh my God, what a guys, give me that to go and give me a $20.

[00:35:04] Did it for the first time, a couple of weeks ago, I’m 41. I don’t like a run around my whole life giving out wads of cash. I haven’t, I I’ve walked past. Many, like many of us I’ve walked past many, a homeless person going. So I’m out of downtown. It’s just a small snippet and I’m sharing it just because it fits with looking out for opportunities to pay that fee.

[00:35:22] You don’t have to give them money, but we can, we’re just going to be better at being there for each other. 

[00:35:27] Jackie Bowker: Couldn’t agree with you more, you know, a few years ago, I decided that I was never going to walk past another homeless person without giving them something. And I think it’s also another thing that you talk so much about it’s this modeling.

[00:35:39] I have two children, a boy and a girl, and they were always with me. So. If we’re at the supermarket and we’re walking outside, it’s a place where, where we live. There’s usually a homeless person outside asking for money. And so I think once I didn’t have any of the same, I don’t often have a lot of casts on me.

[00:35:56] And I guess the kids said, oh, but, um, [00:36:00] they ask now they’re like, mom, he got, because they been conditioned to know that we do this for homeless people, which is that actually for me, the joy in them learning that and having absorbed that like a sponge. So we went into. Well, we had bought and you know, my I’m a nutritionist by trade.

[00:36:16] We only have really healthy food, but I buy these donuts. They called no shoe donuts. So no sugar donuts. And we handed the guy, we didn’t have much on us. So we handed the guy a no shoe donut and he said, oh, So much, but I’ve got diabetes. I can’t take it. And, uh, and we were like, and big, my kids went, they were like, oh, it’s totally healthy.

[00:36:37] Know there’s no sugar in it. And he was like, really all these and we got, we all had a laugh. It was just such a great 

[00:36:45] Hugh van Cuylenburg: experience. That’s no good. My wife, penny literally had the opposite experience of the day. She walked past a homeless guy and didn’t have money, but she said, can I get you a coffee? I’m about to get a coffee.

[00:36:54] And he goes, yeah, that’d be good. And she goes, what do you want to hear? Is I covered? She knows she has any sugar and he goes, yeah. Five. [00:37:00] Wow. Okay. Five surrogates. My gosh. 

[00:37:04] Jackie Bowker: Yeah. I think I would’ve got the COVID with those, the Grubbs. So 

[00:37:07] Hugh van Cuylenburg: brutal like that. Yeah. Sorry about it. Not good for you. Not, not for good for your gut and therefore it’s not good for your brain,

[00:37:15] Jackie Bowker: um, in really good health, but you know, it’s interesting. I love that you talk about gratitude in general. We’ve surveyed over 12,000 people on energy. And one of the questions ease about gratitude and six out of 10 people, 58% are telling us that they don’t practice gratitude and they don’t have a sense of purpose.

[00:37:37] What do you think about that? Does that mirror any of your 

[00:37:39] Hugh van Cuylenburg: research? Yeah. No, totally. I’m I’m even surprised, honestly, that you’ve got like a massive, terrible, what’d you say, say I’m amazed, you’ve got 40% of your people who are saying they do by just got to two. I don’t even many people do. I really, I mean, maybe the people you’re asking are sort of into well-being type stuff.

[00:37:56] So maybe that’s why we’ve got that many people. But I would say, I feel like most [00:38:00] people don’t feel like they would have a clearly articulated purpose, you know? For a very long time. It’s like, he’s all over this stuff. And has had sessions with, you know, Ben Crow, the mindset, you know, at parties, mindset, coach, who’s like the purpose king.

[00:38:17] And she still says, I just don’t feel like, I dunno what it is like I don’t quite, so I think a lot of people don’t have a purpose. A lot of people don’t practice gratitude. And I think. Purpose have I complicated, but gratitude’s a low-hanging fruit. It’s just there, like it’s for a long time journal. Now I just, I really, I feel like I’m very good.

[00:38:36] Apparently, according to my mom, I’ve always been a little good at it, but if something good happens, I really acknowledge it. Or I say something good or I feel something that I’m just like, how good is this? I’ll probably as a kid say, how good is this all the time mum would like, she told a story. Uh, wedding pay my wedding that whenever in summer, and we had a Jasmine Bush outside my, I love the smell of Jasmine, especially while I’m in spring.

[00:38:59] Only thought [00:39:00] that mum would open my, we never actually sound very sport, but mom just would come in to wake me up. She would put the blonde out, put the window up because if someone comes straight into a fire, there’s just trash. It wasn’t like being like a slime. She was just trying to wipe me off, but apparently I’d lie there and go as a teenager, as a kid and this guy, he goes this Jasmine sun spring or whatever it was.

[00:39:18] So I think I’ve always been really good at practicing. Real life. I think having kids has really challenged me cause a lot of things are really pissing me off, but I do. I do think I’ve been always pretty good naturally at, I don’t know why I’m showing off. All of a sudden I don’t have the defense. I’m just showing off about me being good at gratitude, but yeah, 

[00:39:34] Jackie Bowker: so humble.

[00:39:35] I don’t think anyone would possibly call you as so off. Yeah, no, it is interesting. You know, my funny story, my mother-in-law is we’re very, like-minded, I’m very much, everything’s amazing and you’re incredible and I love you so much. It very much glasses, half full I’ve been like that my whole life and my mother-in-law.

[00:39:57] Probably not so much. And I remember my husband once [00:40:00] saying to me, like, and I was like, oh, I don’t know, you know, what’s going on? And she’s like, you’re too positive. Like you’re overly positive. It’s like, you know, it’s like, it’s too much. It’s like comes off as not genuine. And I was like, I don’t know how to be any other way.

[00:40:12] Like.

[00:40:17] Probably, I love you, Carol. We, we actually, we have these conversations a lot. Like we have to laugh about it because we are just like the whole office. 

[00:40:27] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Yeah. Yeah. Well done. They say you’re attracted, you’re often attracted to the exact. Like your partner is often this, like exactly the, obviously your husband hasn’t done that.

[00:40:38] Jackie Bowker: Well, yeah. I’m going to change the subject.

[00:40:45] Tell me something here that you are personally working on. Like, is there anything that, what are you struggling with that you’re working on to help you feel better? 

[00:40:55] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Two things come to mind and they’re both very different things. One is, I am so, so keen to break the [00:41:00] national record for 400 meters for men, not the national fundamental record, the national 400 meter record for men, age 40 to 44.

[00:41:08] So it’s not as bad as easy, but that’s the thing that. Gets you out of bed at the moment and nuts. What if keeping me not just had a session? The rest of my head. So as I was, had a session just saying it’s pouring rain. It was 14 degrees today in Melbourne and I 28 

[00:41:22] Jackie Bowker: yesterday. 

[00:41:23] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Yeah. Where are you? Where are you in the world?

[00:41:26] Oh, 

[00:41:26] Jackie Bowker: I live in Burley, so always 28 degrees. 

[00:41:29] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Yeah. Yeah, 28 degrees yesterday in Melbourne. And today it’s 14 and 14 is generous. I don’t even, it’s 14. It’s on my carpet. It feels like 12. My car’s always a bit generous. And, um, it’s just, it was like, it’s that horizontal drizzle things. It’s like all day. And I still got in my running gear, couldn’t wait to get to the track.

[00:41:46] And it’s because I’m so personally that’s something I’m working on is I’ll probably want to break the national record, but I will get close-ish. And that makes me feel really, you know, I do feel. Running for me is like, it’s the [00:42:00] same fountain of youth. It’s like the anti-aging thing for me. Like I’m getting quicker and stronger as, as a runner in that field.

[00:42:06] Pretty cool. Like, I do love that feeling and that is the thing that got me through. COVID why that is 100% running for me is what everyone had something. I think a lot of people didn’t realize it at the time. A lot of us will look back at something and go, wow, I survived what got me through and then we can go.

[00:42:21] I think it was that. So may it was definitely my sprinting that’s, you know, was every day. I try and in some way, shape or form. And even when I wasn’t training, it was like, oh, recovery day, I’ve got to recover. I’m going to drink lots of water. Eat really well, that kind of stuff. So that’s one. The other thing I’m finding a very challenging moment working on is trying to help my son navigate what is.

[00:42:42] Yeah, I dunno, what’s happening at the moment. We don’t really know, but he’s being assessed for stuff and highly anxious kid who gets very angry very quickly. And I joke about it before, like throwing a tissue in his face, but that felt like a low point today. Like I always am very good at finding humor in the, in the low points, which is what I did before that like, [00:43:00] His behavior can be so challenging.

[00:43:03] And just trying to, we’re told we have to, you know, just let him, you know, not get cross at him, not react to it, just sit there with him through it. But it’s like dangerous when he’s smashing stuff up in the house and it upsets his two year old sister when he’s upset. But at the moment I feel like that’s all he ever really is, is angry and upset at us.

[00:43:20] And I’m trying so hard to work on. How I can help him, but I don’t know at the moment. And I’m trying all types of things. I can confirm categorically that throwing a t-shirt at him is not the best thing to do to help him through it.

[00:43:35] Trial and error. I mean, it’s just era at the moment from everything era, era, era, but I’m trying, my wife and I are trying to work out how to support him. We don’t know what’s going on yet. So once we find out what’s going on, it might be a bit easier, but bloody hell is. That’s what I’m working on, how to be the best dad for my son, my daughter’s fine.

[00:43:56] She’s flying cheeses. It’s like, she’s just precious, [00:44:00] beautiful, happy. And he’s beautiful and precious as well, but he’s not as happy as often as she is. So, and it’s hard. Like you’re the person who like last year I felt like I was sending to me, like, how do we cope during a challenging time? And I’m like, I’m happy with this interview, but just say, no, I can’t even help my son at the moment.

[00:44:16] So, you know, I don’t know if I feel. Yeah. Yeah. It was hard. It was hard. So yeah. 

[00:44:22] Jackie Bowker: Well thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable and you know, I always, my husband, I was just having this conversation earlier and I was having it with a girlfriend yesterday. I feel like. Oh dads and moms, but I would say if you’re a mum, the mum of boys or the dad of boys, but we often talk about, you know, if you’re a boy, mom, you know, it’s just so different to being a girl mum, and I’ve got to go on a boy as well.

[00:44:44] The girl is completely different. She’s super easy to. Super happy. She wakes up in the morning and all she wants to do is just hang out and like just, she’s got this angel face. She’s completely divided, radiates love, and my son needs really different. He’s [00:45:00] also a divine angel, but I can really relate, you know, we’ve had him the upset more times than I could count and run to the knife block and get a knife.

[00:45:08] And, you know, w we’ve got to talk about this thing because you’re suffering through it. I know exactly. What you’re talking about. And I think what I can say to you is that it gets easier and that everything, it really does let my son’s 10 turning 11 now. And we’ve been through some challenging times and he is now, you know, 90, 95% of the time he is impeccable.

[00:45:32] And that 5% is pretty ugly, but yeah. You know, the other thing is when we can certainly talk about this off there, but we’ve done a lot of work on his gut. Cause the dot and the brain are connected. Now I happened to be so fortunate in what I do, but we cleared parasites out of his gut. We cleared, you know, so he’s, it’s definitely for parents it’s really worth investigating and all your, I know you’re doing things and you might already be on this path.

[00:45:56] But not a lot of people are talking about what could possibly be [00:46:00] going on to drive the behavior from a root cause perspective. And, you know, he’d pop pretty. He said all disease begins in the gut. So these imbalances in behavior, you know, we just have to look, I think, beyond. Traditional avenues and tests and things like that.

[00:46:17] So I don’t know if that’s 

[00:46:18] Hugh van Cuylenburg: helpful for you. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Absolutely. These, yeah. I love that. That’s I haven’t been thinking about that for a while as well. Yeah. 

[00:46:26] Jackie Bowker: And food like, and obviously sugar people generally know that sugar is a drug and inflammatory and you know, totally is like a hand grenade to the gut, but so is gluten.

[00:46:36] So, you know, you take out the top inflammatory foods, gluten, soy, corn dairy. And, you know, you might notice the behavior changes. And so, yeah, it’s just really digging deep into that investigation and just don’t stop asking why. 

[00:46:52] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Thank you. I really appreciate that. 

[00:46:54] Jackie Bowker: Um, I’m supposed to be doing 

[00:46:58] Hugh van Cuylenburg: I’m very self as they turned this [00:47:00] into an interview where I learned heaps of stuff from them.

[00:47:02] You’ll, this is probably heard you say this stuff before, and they’re like 

[00:47:06] Jackie Bowker: so passionate. I’m really passionate about parents talking about it because so many of us are suffering and we think our child is, you know, is the child, you know, we think we’re aligning them and we just. And I do think there’s something about boys.

[00:47:19] I really do. Hey here, what adventure are you embarking on next? Well, 

[00:47:24] Hugh van Cuylenburg: there’s a national tour, which is sort of in full swing at the moment. We’ve had more around Australia, New Zealand, which is, I guess, in the international tour. So we’ve got all those shows that if they want to see me speak, if you’ve never had to be before, I dunno how to describe the show to you.

[00:47:38] I was entered in the comedy festival here in international comedy festival because people laugh a lot. But, yeah, so we sold out home a hall, which is a 2,400 seat venue a couple of weeks ago. And there’s a lot of laughter. So I think some people describe it as standup comedy. Other people would say it’s a collection of funny stories.

[00:47:57] I don’t really know everyone, but it’s, it’s all the stuff we spoke about today to [00:48:00] gratitude, empathy, mindfulness wrapped up in hopefully a very accessible package of light, a lot of laughter and a few tears. And. So I’ve got those around the country can find those dates in resilience, project.com.edu, or you can go to live nation.com.

[00:48:13] Got are you or the touring party who are looking after me? And the podcast is a very beautiful experience for me personally. Don’t with my little brother, Josh, and one of my best friends, Ryan Shelton, who’s a comedian, that’s the imperfect. And they’re probably the two main things to probably promote that.

[00:48:28] This is probably the best word at the moment. If you want to read more to the books, the resilience project, the first one, and the second one is let go. As you said, 

[00:48:36] Jackie Bowker: Oh, thank you so much then, you know, you really are humble like a thousand plus schools, 500 plus workplaces working with elite sports teams.

[00:48:44] And what I love is, and you are right about the humor. This is what I read about you for anyone who wants to share a laugh and pick up some well-being tips along the way. I mean that just Peter Mises, your humbleness so much. Courage and so much [00:49:00] wits and intelligence and just gifts that you are sharing with the world.

[00:49:04] Hugh, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Really grateful, really honored to share you with the world. Thank you. 

[00:49:10] Hugh van Cuylenburg: Oh, I’m like that, that last little bit, I might just record that and make it my ringtone. Thank you. 

[00:49:15] Jackie Bowker: I would love that to be a right time. Make me a celebrity, so awesome. I’ve I’ve kind of lost.

[00:49:29] If you made it to the end of this 

[00:49:31] Hugh van Cuylenburg: episode, celebrate 

[00:49:32] Jackie Bowker: your seatbelt because it means you are truly dedicated to feeling better in your health, in your career, in your relationships. And I am so proud of you. And if you want more. Feel better now. So tuning every Monday for new episodes and join our community on Instagram at Jackie Belper for all the behind the scenes action and malls.

[00:49:54] Hey, why don’t you sign up for a chance to have your question [00:50:00] answered@fieldfitbitinstitute.com. Sign up that feel better institute.com/sign up. But most of all, police keep reaching to feel better because the world needs you to feel good. So you can share that very special gift that only you have. So with that said sees soon here’s to feeling better now bye-bye.