07: Turn Your Thoughts Into a Superpower with Jason Goldberg

jackie: [00:00:00] Welcome. Welcome. Welcome, Jason. We are thrilled to be spending some time with you today. Welcome to the field, but in our podcast, 

Jason: I’m so excited to be here. I got to, now I get to meet you.

I get to meet the apparition of a husband that you have. I mean, this is just beautiful experience already. Yeah. It’s got 

jackie: it’s spiritual. Isn’t it? 

Jason: Very LA. 

jackie: Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Uh, So , your work that you put out into the world is absolutely phenomenal is courageous. It’s funny. You’re, you’re so interesting.

And I love the, the courageous, but very human conversations that you have. So I want to know, have you always been this hilarious or is it, did it, did it grow on you through your healing 

Jason: journey? Well, let’s see that the narcissist to me is like, yeah, it was always funny. No, I don’t. I mean, I, I think there was always, I was always looking to get kind of a laugh, but I, I developed, I really feel like initially I develop my humor and kind of my comedic prowess as, as a [00:01:00] coping mechanism for not feeling enough.

Right for, for being like, you know, the fat kid from a very young age and getting picked on a lot. And I realized that if I could make people laugh before they made fun of me, then it would have be some kind of connecting point. I’d feel some kind of connection to them. And I wouldn’t have to feel like crap.

So it kind of was a way to allow me to feel some love and some approval. And I’m, I’m grateful for it because that what started off as something that was kind of used as coping mechanism, became a big part of the way that I serve in the world now. But, but I really think it was cultivated and developed because I needed to feel valuable in the.

jackie: Yes, that is, yeah. That’s, that’s so interesting. And I love that you thank you for sharing that. And I love that you used the word crap because I love your acronym for, and you know, it’s so synonymous with the way I teach as well. And you know, Louise hay is one of my biggest heroines and she taught me so much about getting up in the morning and looking at myself in the mirror and saying, I love you because [00:02:00] it may be the only time I hear that, that day.

Tell me how I can love the crap out of myself. 

Jason: Yeah, I love this. This is, this was uh, an episode of one of my podcasts that I I’m guessing you’re referencing. Otherwise you just have really good intuition. It’s just off the charts. So, so I did an episode about self-love because self-love is something that I struggled with my entire life.

And I’m not even, I won’t even say it’s like gone where I’d never have a moment of feeling, not enoughness or feeling deficient or comparison or whatever. Like that’s, I think that’s part of the human experience. So one of the core tenants that everything I teach is that nothing I teach is about immunity from the human experience.

It’s about navigating through the human experience, right? So I’m not like if you do this practice, you’ll never feel stress again. That’s called sociopathy, or that’s called being so heavily medicated that you just are numb to the world. . So for me, the self-love thing is a constant practice and a constant reminder of doing whatever I can to minimize , the presence of self criticism.[00:03:00] 

Right? Because the, the opposite, the, the absence of self-criticism is the presence of south love. You don’t actually have to develop self love. If you just stop criticizing yourself, what’s left over is self-love it’s self-acceptance. And so there are plenty of different ways to do that, but it was funny when you just even say, The, you know, looking in the mirror and telling yourself that you love yourself.

I love them. Of course, some people think that’s narcissistic, but if you look at, if you look at babies like babies and little kids they’re narcissists, but in the best way, like they haven’t learned the limitations yet. Like, I’m great. I’m amazing. I love you. I’m going to touch my own face in the mirror because that’s the most beautiful person I’ve ever met.

And so I love that you have that practice. And one of my practices for self-love is because I will tend to, and I’m probably the only person in the entire world and the only person that that is around this podcast right now that can say this, I tend to be a little hard on myself. I’m sure it’s just me.

I know Jackie. You never do it. Mark never does it. None of our, no, but for me, I’m a little hard on myself. And so what will happen is that any time I would feel some [00:04:00] kind of a backslide, right? Let’s say. You know, part of my journey as I’ve lost 130 pounds, let’s say I see, you know, two pounds up on the scale and I gained two pounds.

Then immediately my mind goes into this up. You’re going to gain all your weight back. You’re going to, you know, you’re going to be you know, morbidly obese again, and you’re going to undo all this progress and you’re going to lose love, and you’re gonna lose acceptance, like for two pounds, like this whole story comes out and same thing in business.

Like, oh, you have a month that you thought was going to be better than it than it actually was. Or you thought this client was going to sign up and they didn’t, it’s really easy to go into the spiral. So one of the conversations I have with myself is a conversation that I, again, we’ll look in the mirror or if I don’t have a mirror handy, I’ll look in the camera of my phone.

So I can like see myself or look in the screen of my phone and I’ll have this conversation. That is, I would still love you even if, and then insert in whatever I think the worst case scenario is because if I can show myself that there’s nothing that I can do. For too, around myself, that creates conditions around how much I love myself, [00:05:00] then the worst thing can happen and I know I’m still going to be okay.

So I can say, you know, Jason, I would still love you, even if you got rid of your business and went and got a corporate job, because I would never want to do that. That’s terrible. That’s like that’s failure. That’s all these bad things. So once I can kind of fall in love or at least fall in like with the worst case scenario and know that I’m going to be okay, then the anxiety and the stuff goes away.

jackie: Absolutely. Even if I absolutely love that, that is such a great tip. I’m going to, I’m going to build that in E and because we live in a world of of such comparison as well, don’t we comparing ourselves to others, comparing ourselves to ourselves? Yeah, I couldn’t agree more.

So Jason, tell me this, you so accomplished. Has there been a special somebody in your life that has shaped your journey, your health, your career, your relationship. Tell me more about someone’s special. 

Jason: There’s been so many. I mean, the first person that comes to mind is [00:06:00] somebody who’s been a mentor of mine for seven years now continues to be a mentor and, and over the years have become a friend and a co-conspirator and we’ve created some stuff together, but it’s a man by the name of Steve Chandler.

I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of Steve Chandler before, but he is just kind of the godfather of life coaching. He’s written just tons of books. He’s a, he didn’t start writing books until he was in his forties and he’s written like 30 books now he’s 70, 73 years old. And he was the guy when I started diving into personal growth in 2009, when I had this, this experience where I say, it’s the day the universe cut me off.

It’s the first chapter of my book prison break and where I really finally couldn’t blame circumstance anymore for the weight that I was carrying around physically, the weight that I was carrying around emotionally the stress, the anxiety, the depression. When I realized that there was some personal responsibility, not some, there was all personal responsibility.

From my experience of life. And I started diving into personal growth. I was reading things. I was looking at things and they were helpful, but he was the guy that really, really drove it home for me. And we know this, [00:07:00] we have people where you could hear five people say the exact same thing and the sixth person for whatever reason, the way they say it, energetically, whatever it is, it just lands.

And with Steve, that’s what it was. And Steve had just been an incredible mentor and a life partner, not that kind of life partner, but life partner over the years, it has just been 

jackie: amazing. Wow. And so you connect with him in person or 

Jason: both, but yeah, but yeah, in person and virtually not so much in person, it’s been years since we’ve actually been in person together.

But yeah, mainly virtually and and yeah, thank God for the internet where even with the pandemic, you can still connect with the people that, you know, light up your world. 

jackie: And what would you say to Steve? I’m sure you do anyway, but what, what is something that you would say to Steve now that you really want him to hear.

Jason: Man there’s, there’s so much. I mean, I think that the key thing though, for me, and I’ve talked about this a lot with people about like, why I continue to coach them after all these years is the thing I want to tell them is just thank you for the reminder. It’s [00:08:00] there, you know, so much of being in the coaching industry in my mind.

And what I feel like I do as a coach is I, I say this all the time that coaches are actually in the PR business, but PR stands for permission and reminders, right? That’s it permission and reminders, giving people permission to do what they actually know they want to do anyways. And giving them reminders of what they know at a deep core level is true for them.

And so once I learned the concepts, learn the principles and was, and was practicing them in my life. Anytime I would have a time where I would get really down or really stressed or, or start kind of losing sight of what I know to be true, he was great at just pointing me back to what I know to be true deep down.

And so just thank you for the reminder is just something that I’ll always associate with. 

jackie: Aw, that is so beautiful. And what is something that I know you before you told us about the evening? What is a thank you for the reminder , for you that you say to yourself? 

Jason: Yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of things it’s a lot of it is just around [00:09:00] for me, remembering who I really am.

 I don’t know if you know about these, my intent bracelets. Uh they’re they’re great. You can remind and you can kind of put whatever affirmation or whatever you want on them. My buddy, Chris pan, it’s his business. Uh, But if you look up my intent, it’s these bracelet gigabytes. And so mine, mine is to remind me who I really am.

And I’ll tell you what it says in a second, but imagine for a second, were you ever a fan of the Batman movies? Did you ever see any of the bad memories and when you’re a fan of them? Not 

jackie: personally. No, my husband is though,

Jason: then that’s all, that’s all you need to know. As long as you go, you’re good to go. So, so there were a bunch of different Batman’s. There were six or seven actors who played Batman, the original original movie, Batman was Michael Keaton. And to me that that’s like the real Batman. So imagine that you are you’re the director on the set of Batman and Michael Keaton is playing the role Batman and you film the scene and you yell cut, and you are kind of doing your own thing.

You’re checking in with your, your PAs and you’re checking in with your production, all the people around you and you look over and you see Batman [00:10:00] and he’s pacing back and forth on set. And he looks really stressed out. And so you walk up to him and you say, Hey man, what’s what’s going on? You look like, you look like something’s wrong.

And he looks to you and he goes, you know, I don’t know, Jackie, I just, what if, what if I’m not strong enough to beat the joker? What if my, what if my technology is not powerful enough? What if the people of Gotham die and it’s all my fault because I couldn’t protect. And you, as the director are looking at him, like, what the hell is wrong with him?

Like he knows that that was a scene in a movie, right? Like he’s got to get back. So you have two choices now as the director, number one, you can say, okay, Batman, let’s figure out how to make sure your technology is strong enough. So you can beat the joker or you can remind him that he’s Michael Keaton and he’s not actually Batman.

And so what I have on my bracelet here, it literally says not Batman. It’s, it’s a reminder to myself that when I get caught in the movie of what looks to be real and live, it looks to be serious. And what looks to be [00:11:00] detrimental and what looks to be something that is going to completely obliterate life.

As I know. I want to remember that there was a time before those thoughts were in my head. There was a time before the catastrophic thinking and stories started popping up. I existed before that thought and I existed before my body looked away and looked and I existed before whatever bodily sensations I’m feeling.

So if I existed before all those things, I can’t be those things. And when I have that understanding that me taking the role of Batman seriously is the cause of my suffering. It doesn’t mean that I say, okay, well then I’m just going to sit on the couch and eat ice cream all day and not do anything, but it allows me this distance where I go cool.

Now that I get that nothing is at risk about me at my core essence at my soul level, nothing’s at risk. Then I can still go play with Batman and say, cool, let’s roll up our sleeves and see how we can beat the joker. But my attachment to that is way less serious. It’s still sincere, but it’s way less serious.

If that makes sense. 

jackie: Absolutely. And you know, what I love about that is that you were talking [00:12:00] about your thoughts and like the stories we tell and that out. I love teaching people that your thoughts become your reality. And it’s so interesting when you think about the three minds and the conscious mind, the subconscious mind, the subconscious mind drives so much of our actions.

So can you teach me a little bit about how your thoughts create your reality? 

Jason: Yeah, that’s an interesting point and , I’m kind of a I’m a lover of language. And so I’m always kind of really like looking at language and the way we say things. And I think sometimes people get it mistaken that, that phrase, your thoughts, create your reality.

As it, at least in my experience, I’m not saying this is a capital teacher. In my experience, the thoughts create reality phrase is interpreted by a lot of people as if you, if you think about something, you, you will manifest that into the world. , and for some people, they believe that. , and I have no problem with that.

I have no problem with anything, whatever works for you is what works for you. But what I will say is that the way I look at this is that nothing exists in reality until your aware [00:13:00] and. So there is nothing that’s real until your consciousness can create some kind of construct to make it real. So, so for me, it’s your, your awareness reports on reality, as opposed to like your thoughts create your reality.

So the more you’re aware then you notice when you are taking a thought seriously and thinking your Batman, or if you can be like a news reporter, because a news reporter goes to the scene of a building that’s on fire and they say, Hey, I’m reporting live from the scene. And we have a building that’s on fire.

But th the news reporter doesn’t go into the building that’s on fire and think they need to now be burned alive because they’re onsite. Like they’re just reporting what’s going on. And so I think it’s really important for us to, to slow down enough to notice that our thoughts are not instructions.

Our thoughts are not punishments. Our thoughts are not truthful. They’re not facts, they’re just thoughts. And so the more we treat them as what they are, right. That the mental construct that they are, then we get to look at them and we get to say, okay, is this thought either interesting or. Right.

[00:14:00] Interesting or helpful. There’s plenty of things that are interesting. Right? I could binge watch the Kardashians all day. It would be very interesting and it would have no positive effect on what I’m trying to create in my life. But when, when a thought is helpful, then I say, cool, I want to entertain that.

I want to engage with it. So if it’s interesting, I want to have a very casual relationship. I don’t, I don’t want to get too deep into engage with it, but if it feels helpful, then I’ll follow it. 

jackie: Well, I absolutely love that interpretation. I think that is so helpful and productive. I also think my I suppose one of my beliefs is that we’re brought into this world with a set of beliefs and some are helpful and productive and healthy and some are unhealthy and unproductive.

And so, how do I transform those beliefs, , those thoughts from being unhealthy or unproductive to something that’s going to serve. 

Jason: Yeah, well, and I think that’s where it gets into not, not trying to do that. So , if you’re like a right-handed pitcher in baseball and you make it to the [00:15:00] world series your pitching coach doesn’t come over and say, okay, we made it to the world series.

I know you typically pitch with your right arm, but we should probably work on your left. I’m like, why would I do that? My right is my strong arm double down on the right arm. Right. So, so I can spend my time and energy trying to like transmute and change stories and everything else. And that’s okay.

There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what I call living at the, at the level of content of thinking, right? So like I have content of my thoughts. This is what my thoughts are saying. I need to do something to change those thoughts, because that will change my experience of life. That’s, that’s a great level to be at.

That’s that’s a lot of what I write about in prison blank. Like self-leadership is very much at that that’s level. Two of three levels for me is the level of content, but there’s the level three, the deeper level of this is the level of context. Right. So if I, if I think that I have to live with the level of content that I need to change, my thoughts, if I live at the level of context, then I realize it’s not what I’m thinking.

It’s just that I’m ting thinking, taking my thinking seriously. So if I realize that I’m just taking a thought seriously, there’s nothing left to [00:16:00] do with it. It’s just, it hangs out on its own until it’s bored and it goes away. But I don’t waste any of my energy trying to make it something different than what it is.

jackie: That is so awesome. I love that perspective, Jason, and it reminds me of something I heard you say which I love, I say it in a slightly different way, which is about saying, you know, saying bye-bye bye-bye to things that you know, are not needed anymore. Thank you. Thank you for that. A message or gift.

And, and you say it so beautifully. Do you know what I’m talking about? 

Jason: Yeah, your services are no longer needed here.. Yes, yes. Talking to the parts of you that definitely served. They were there. I mean, my, my playing a victim for the first, you know, 29 or so years of my life had a massive payoff.

It got me attention. It got me sympathy. It made me feel loved. It made me feel important. And that was really helpful at a time where I needed to feel that. And I didn’t know of a healthier way to get that need met and. Those services are no longer needed. I have a different way of doing things now, a healthier way of doing [00:17:00] things now.

And so when that part of me shows up, which it still totally shows up because it’s a part of the human experience. When it shows up, I can lovingly not forcefully, not with anger, inventions, and contempt and judgment, but I can, I can very kindly and gently say your services are no longer needed here.

Thank you so much for the years of service you provided and you’re free to go do something. 

jackie: I absolutely can relate to that years ago, I was very unwell and like many practitioners you go through a healing crisis and I had got all the sympathy and all the empathy and you know, that, that, that made me free really good.

And I remember the day that I sat there and thought, oh my goodness, I have to change. I have to change the story. I don’t want to be sitting in this anymore. Thank you for that. I’ve realized there’s a better way for me to, to get what I took to fulfill my needs without sitting in that place of being unwell or being sick.

Jason: Absolutely. And, and to do that, [00:18:00] it’s yeah, it’s a very courageous thing to do, like to be able to have that conversation, to be willing to have that conversation is extremely courageous on its own. And it’s so, so important that that be done from a place of loving kindness. It has to be a cancer. And I know I already said it, but I really want to drive this home.

If we, any parts of ourselves. That we feel are not helpful or that we kind of wish weren’t there, which I’d like us to also get out of the habit of wishing things weren’t there. Cause that just makes them want to stay longer. But the more we can meet every one of those things, every one of those experiences as if they are a, a friend were reuniting with that we haven’t seen in 20 years and we want to know how things are going into their life.

We want to intimately get to know them when we can turn towards those things and not try to run away from them and be in this kind of loving place where I consent for them to be there. Like it’s, it’s not like a pushing away. It’s like, oh, you’re here for some reason. Come on in, tell me, is there something you need?

What do you need from me? Do you need love? Do you need acceptance? Do you need reassurance? What do you need right now? [00:19:00] And that is the, not to do this as a motive to get rid of it. But the by-product of that is that it tends to leave in a much shorter amount of time than if I ignored it, distracting myself away from it, or try to force it out.

jackie: I could not agree with you more. And I love that you talked about wishing that it wasn’t there makes it hang around longer. Can you expand on that? 

Jason: Yeah, man. So this is a, this is a big one because I actually had, this was really funny when I, when I started diving into non-duality. I don’t know how much you looked at that or anything else, and it doesn’t matter if they’ve been used to that is, but when I started looking at non-duality, the real core of, of non-duality is that kind of what we were talking about here that, you know, you’re not your thoughts and you’re kind of this, this vast ocean of awareness within which all experiences occur.

And so a great way to look at this and the way that I look at this myself, and it’s part of my own anchoring practice every day. And, and I would love everybody listening to it, to do this as well is just imagine that you are the. And the ocean is [00:20:00] completely boundless. Like you look out at the ocean, you can’t find the edge of the earth unless you’re a flat earther or you can’t find the edge of the ocean.

Right. It just, it just, it gives, it goes forever. And then what happens is, is that within this ocean, which is you, which is this boundless consciousness is boundless area open area. There are waves that occur inside of this ocean. And these waves can be waves of anger or sadness or joy or despair or overwhelm or hope or whatever they are.

And there’s never been an ocean in the history of oceans that has tried to fight against the waves that show up within it. Why would it they’re made of the same thing they’re literally made of the exact same thing. So a wave comes up and the ocean goes, well, there’s a way. Part of who I am. I have nothing to do with that.

And the way it can be as big or as violent as it wants to be. And then it crashes back into the ocean and you can’t find it it’s gone. Like as soon as it came up, it’s gone. It goes back to it, to which it came your place from which it came and it’s all made in the same things. So when you get that insight, it’s really powerful because you go, oh, wow.

Like I don’t have , to judge those waves. I don’t have to have, you know, contempt, those waves, [00:21:00] those waves are just occurring within this big ocean of awareness. Here’s where the problem comes in. You notice that right. You get that insight like I did. And then the waves keep coming and you go, well, no, but I understand now about the ocean and the waves.

So I shouldn’t feel these things anymore. I get it. And it’s like, but that’s, that’s not how it works. It’s the same way with gravity. Once you understand how gravity works. When you have a glass in your hand and you open your hand and it falls, you’re not confused about what happened, you know, that it fell because gravity exists.

And when you open your hand, the glass falls, it doesn’t mean you still don’t have periods of being upset because the glass shattered all over the floor and you have to clean it up. So there’s something about noticing that just because you practice this stuff again, doesn’t make you immune from still feeling all of the different waves.

And to me, that’s such a big one is just to be aware that you, you will always experience this stuff as long as you’re alive. And the more you can remember the way the system works, the less you have to be upset about the system, doing what it is. 

jackie: Absolutely. And I love that. It’s, it’s all [00:22:00] about, you know, I feel like you talk a lot about putting it, I suppose, moving it outside of your frame and looking at it like a detective, you know, like observing the data, observing what’s happening.

Yes. 

Jason: That’s exactly what it is. It’s, there’s, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a screen and there’s a movie, right? There’s like a screen and then a movie that’s being projected on the screen. And it’s very, very tough to tell the difference when you’re watching a movie, if you’re like, have you ever done like an outdoor theater before?

Have you been to an outdoor theater before? There’s one in Centennial park that I’ve been to, which I, I love it was beautiful and it was this outdoor thing and they have a huge movie screen and you’re laying on the grass and everything. And it’s really interesting. Cause when the movie is projected on the screen, I can’t tell where the movie ends and where the screen begins.

They’re intimately one, and yet they’re still separate. But what I know to be true is that if somebody were to remove that screen and the movie was still being projected, nobody would be able to see it. It would just go out into the ether. So the [00:23:00] projected or the screen is needed in order for us to see the way the world works.

But we want to make sure we don’t confuse who we are with the movie that’s playing on the screen. 

jackie: That is brilliant. Thank you so much. I think that visual of, you know, just for me, and now I have a visual of the screen and I can see myself watching the movie. And that is so helpful to as a reminder to come back to when you are.

In the movie and you want to just take, take a seat back and sit in the audience. That’s right. That’s it? Yeah, absolutely. So, is there something that you’re personally working on yourself now talking about you know, that we’re human and we still have those things come in and we have tools and techniques, but is there something you’re specifically working on now?

Jason: Yeah, it’s really interesting, actually. So I just something I’ve been kind of playing with. , I’m in the midst of some really kind of new, big, completely uncharted territory kind of things for myself that I don’t have any, [00:24:00] I don’t have any frame of reference for like, when I’m building things that are kind of traditionally around coaching or courses or something like that.

Even if it’s brand new, I have a frame of reference. I have a language that I know how it works. I know how the model works. Like I know that stuff. I’m bridging into things in the entertainment industry. And I know nothing about that world whatsoever. Right? I enjoy entertainment, but I don’t know how it actually works.

So, so that’s very edgy for me to be in this world where I don’t know things and, and my mind wants to go to some level of certainty and knowing how things play out and knowing what avenues to go down. And it’s just impossible. I don’t know those things. And so it’s, it’s been a really interesting practice to go from a place where you feel a level of mastery going to go back to a place where you feel like you’re a total beginner and it was, and it’s, it’s beautiful because I, I was, I was really struggling with this about a month.

And I remembered a story that I had heard. I spoke to this guy years and years ago, probably 10 years ago, who was a, a martial arts master. And he had trained, he trained in, in Japan and then he had trained a bunch of other people [00:25:00] and he was just a master amazing guy. And he told me this story about how the origin of black belts.

Right. You know, cause they were black belts or they get black belts in their masters of martial arts. And he said, what happened is they start with white belts, right. Because they’re beginning. And then over time they never wash the belt. The belt just stays with them. They never wash it. They never clean it.

And so over time, the dirt and the sweat and all this stuff get into it. And so it turns black, it gets dark and that’s the sign that they are masters, right? That’s why they wear the black belts, which I loved that. It made total sense, honey. And I was a great, and I was getting ready to move on to something else.

He goes, but wait, there’s one other thing. And I said, what? He goes well over time wearing those black belts that never get washed and never get cared for the belts themselves, start to fray and fall apart. And so the top layer of the belt will come off. And what they’re left with is a white belt. And it’s a reminder to them that even though you have a level of mastery, there’s always something that you can go back to and learn new, or there’s always something you can go back and master that you didn’t quite master before.

So [00:26:00] it was a story for me that it’s, you’re not, if you’re doing something brand new, you’ve never done before, you’re never starting over, right. Success, leaves, clues, and whatever you’ve done in the past to be successful, those are completely portable and transferable into this new world that you know nothing about.

So just understand there’s never, ever a such thing as starting over at zero, never. 

jackie: That is I love the story about the black belt and then the white belt and then the black belt again. And it’s, it makes me think about. Life and meandering through. And one thing I like to say to myself is everything is perfect.

You’re exactly where you’re supposed to be right now. And you just have to listen to the next little crumb. Well, the next little flutter. And, and so for me I love teaching about cortisol the stress hormone, and trying to really understand that the body. And I know, I know you like these two, the body doesn’t know the difference between running away from a tiger and sitting in a traffic jam, getting frustrated or eating a jam sandwich, you know, full of gluten and inflammatory foods.

So what are [00:27:00] your thoughts on those breadcrumbs, those flutters, those whispers, and how to tune in to where you’re supposed to be? Right. 

Jason: Yeah, I was ju I was just talking to a client about this a little while ago. So I actually had a really amazing experience over the weekend. I did a a psychedelic sound ceremonies.

I’ve done this with this particular person. It was, it was incredible. You’re in it, you’re in the ceremony for about six hours. It’s a pretty, it’s a pretty long deep process. And, and so I was talking to a client about my own process of integrating what happened over the weekend. And it’s really a matter of, of practicing space and grace space and grace, you got to give yourself space for this stuff to, to come up.

It’s very, it’s very hard , if you’re driving on the highway and you’re trying to find your exit, if you floor the gas pedal and you’re going a hundred miles an hour, you’re going to miss the exit every, since. It doesn’t matter how smart you are. It doesn’t matter how big or how good your plan was.

You’re going to miss the exit. So slowing down and creating spaces is a big one. And the second part of that is grace. And this goes back to not being hard on ourselves. [00:28:00] It’s like, well, I should have this by now. I should get this by now. Or I had it and now I kind of lost it and I shouldn’t be going through that anymore.

Cause I’ve been learning this stuff for so long. And it’s just all this crap that just continues to distract you from the really simple thing. The thing that your voice is trying to tell you. So, so it’s really, I think it’s so important to have space and grace and even the download that I got, I got one major download from this experience over the weekend.

And it was, it was kind of a scolding lovingly scolding message. It wasn’t like a meme message, but it was like a lovingly kind of like, yeah. Lovingly sculpting message that essentially said, stop trivializing your gift. Right. Stop trivializing your gifts and what I, what I made that mean and what I’m taking with me and what I hope will be helpful to anybody here listening is that you have all of you have a particular set of gifts or skills.

They, these may be natural things, or you’ve just always had as a kid. You know, since you were a kid, it could be something that you’ve cultivated. It can be an essence, a qualitative thing, a quantitative [00:29:00] thing. It could be wisdom. It could be Intuit, whatever it is, you have these gifts. And what we so often do, or I’ll speak for myself.

What I so often do is I take these gifts and because I’m an entrepreneur, I need to match the gift to a business model. I need to match the gift to the smart strategy for growth. I need to like use the gift for these very specific things and whatever it was, spirit God, the universe, whatever you want to call it.

That gave me this gift. They’re looking at me saying, I gave you this amazing thing. And the best thing you can think about is business models. You’re trivializing this. Now. It doesn’t mean don’t work on business models and don’t work on strategy, but what it means is lean fully into what that gift is first and allow the creation in the outer world and the world of form to come from that tapping in, to come from that anchoring in.

Don’t use it as, as a tool or as a pond to figure out what you should be doing. Step into that feeling. First step into that essence first, and then see what emerges from there. [00:30:00] 

jackie: I completely agree. And as you were telling that story I, my, my throat choked up for you and I, I, you know, I really felt that that is absolute.

I love that you talk about the download that you got and the message, and that you got that in a place where everything was perfect and you were quiet enough that you could hear that, but that at least something so powerful for you. And I could tell, and I don’t know if there’s any work that you do around your throat or your throat shocker or speaking up, but that is definitely something that is, was perfect for you to hear in that moment.

I’m glad you’re pursuing 

Jason: it. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it was very, very powerful. , it was worth the entire six hours. I mean, I had other little things that came through, but that was, that was the big one. And I think, again, it’s, that’s a message that a lot of people could put use for their benefits.

I hope. 

jackie: Oh, without doubt. And you know, you’re so courageous. I love the story that you tell about. So people may not know that you do some or do some mentoring in prisons. [00:31:00] And I love the story that you tell around to the prisoner who is ready to be released. And he has transformed and grown and is in a completely different place than he was 10 years prior.

Teach me about the, the courage and the message that you shared with him. 

Jason: Yeah, it was just , , this guy, young guy, and he’d been in prison for 10 years and he was there for something pretty, you know, pretty heinous for, for all intents and purposes, nobody would say it wasn’t. And he was very aware that he was there for a really good reason.

And he had gone through these programs and he had learned these entrepreneurial skills and these emotional intelligence skills, and he was actually ready to get to get out. And this is a prison where a lot of the guys that are never good out there, they’re in there for life. Cause they’ve done some pretty, pretty crazy stuff, but this guy had served his time and he was getting ready to get out.

And he had this real sense of guilt that he was going to be leaving prison and going back out into the world. And when I asked him what the guilt was about, he said, He’s getting a second chance and the person that he committed this crime against never [00:32:00] got a second chance. Right. They, they, their life was lost.

And so for him, it was like, well, why do I get a second chance? Like survivor’s guilt in a way, right. Survivor’s guilt, survivor’s remorse. , and, and just feeling so guilty about going out into the world. And what I spoke to him about was that, you know, this feeling of guilt and you can replace guilt with, with shame or regret , or anything that kind of feels like, like a heavy, backward looking kind of, kind of energy.

And just telling him that. Guilt doesn’t serve him guilt. Doesn’t move the needle forward. If he wants to really kind of repent for what he did, he served his time, which is great because in, in at least in this country and in most developed nations that’s you paying your debt to society as you voted prison, you do whatever you do, and you go back to the real world, but he has a chance to actually.

And that’s to go out in the world and not just take the stuff that he did in prison as being like a fun little exercise to pass the time. But to actually say, given the fact that I have a second chance, what can I create going forward? That allows me to be the man that I always knew I could be, but for whatever reason, it wasn’t modeled.

I [00:33:00] didn’t have an example or I just wasn’t mature enough to realize what I should be doing with my life. And so it’s, it’s, it’s really beautiful for all of us to look at that, that, you know, you can bring the lesson with you without continuing to beat yourself over the head with it. You know, if you, if you put your hand on a stove and you burn your hand, you don’t need to keep your hand there to remind yourself to not burn your hand on the stove again, that makes no sense.

Right? So, so you can take the lesson with you without needing it to be a shameful, guilty thing to move. 

jackie: I absolutely love that. And I love your analogies, Jason, I’ve got, I’ve got my movie screen. I’ve gone by my head on the bed. So, so helpful because we can see those with our eyes and you know, all of us, I think we forget as well about our senses.

You know, we hear, without years we see with our eyes, what is something feeling like? You know, what is something tastes like? Talk to me about how do you, how you use your senses. 

Jason: It’s actually, it’s [00:34:00] really funny. You say that because you know, being, being as overweight as I was, you know, I was the chubby kid from kindergarten, which I’m, you know, five years old.

So I was always the chubby kid. And then I was 250 pounds when I was in high school. When I was 15 years old, I was 250 pounds, which is when kids are really loving and accepting and they would never make fun of you because of your appearance. So that was super fun. And then I got up to 332 pounds in my late twenties.

And the reason I tell you all that is because it created a disconnect between me and my body. I didn’t feel my body at all. And I remember people saying, especially when I got into personal growth, like where do you feel that in your body? And I was like, I don’t even know what does that mean? Like I don’t, I’m from the neck down, I’m disconnected.

I disassociated from my body because I was so ashamed of my body. And so having practices over the last, you know, five or six years that I’ve really leaned into to be able to get back in touch with my body. Now it’s become something that I really love that I have access to. And I’ll tell you why

it is. It’s very. Common and very helpful. And my [00:35:00] default to work on whatever I’m struggling or suffering with between the years, right. To work at it from the level of the mind. And that’s what I love to do. Like I’m a mindset guy. Like I’m, that’s my whole thing. And that doesn’t tell the whole story, right?

The mind is great, but the body is a huge part of this, of this process. And so one of my mentors talks about this and I love this. I love this analogy. He says, think of two boxers in, in a boxing match. The most dangerous place they can be is about a meter from each other. Right? Cause that’s where the punches can land.

They can knock each other out, right? That’s the most dangerous place for either of them to be hurt and to hurt the other one. So they have two choices. If they want to get away from the danger, one is they can go to their respective corners, right. They go to their respective corners. They’re out of danger.

 , the analogy there, the parallel there is looking at things from the mind, right? You zoom out, you take a step back and now you can actually survey what’s going on and figure out what’s you. And what’s not in the screen and the ocean and all those things. But the other way that you can actually get to a safer place.

And you’ll see this with [00:36:00] boxers, when they get tired, they collapse into each other and you seen this, they hold on, they hug each other, right? Yeah. Yeah. They do it because they’re tired. Right. And that that’s a refuge, that’s a safe refuge where they can’t, nobody can get enough leverage to hit them, to re you know, really make it pound.

So they get the kind of rest without having to go to their respective corners. Cause they’re not allowed to go to their corners during the match. So the way that, that, that my mentor talked about that was that them folding into each other is the same as us going into the sensation in our bodies, going into the emotion, not trying to process it in the mind, not zooming out, not trying to find what’s you.

And what’s not at the level of thinking. And so what I’ll do now, And this is often a part of my meditation. I meditate 30 minutes every morning. Sometimes I’ll do a second 20 minute later in the day, but 30 minutes, first thing non-negotiable. And I will check in with the sensations in my body. And if I’m feeling something, a tightness in my chest, , like a, you know, a thing in my gut, like in my stomach, like a turning or turning in my stomach, or I’m feeling some heat in my shoulders, whatever it is, I will contact that sensation.

As if [00:37:00] I’m picking up the phone to call a friend, I will contact that sensation and let it know. I 100% consent to it being there. And while it’s taking up all this residence in my chest, I can’t. You know, you don’t have just my chest, right. You know, you have my entire body that you can, and then it starts moving and the energy starts moving into my arms, my legs, but now , it’s dissipating the energy.

It’s taking the same ball that was all balled up in my chest. And it’s equally distributing it out through my body to wear something that felt really tight and heavy becomes just a tingle. And then it just disappears on its own. I don’t have to do any crazy work. I don’t have to do any mindset or reframing or anything.

I simply consent for it to be there, to be there for as long as it wants and to take over every square inch of my body that it needs. And when it does that, it dissipates on its own within 10, 15, 20 seconds. 

jackie: Oh, my goodness. I absolutely loved that. And I write down your space and great. That just reminded me of, of me.

You’re so graceful and you so graceful that love and kindness, compassion [00:38:00] accepting that for why it needs to be there. And then just in nature of that, acceptance it dissipates. So it’s a beautiful that’s a beautiful practice. Your body must be so proud of. 

Jason: I hope so.

What do you think? Why are you proud of me? Oh, it’s been it’s it’s on Facebook right now. You can’t talk, 

jackie: you look amazing by the way, in terms of your, I know you’ve had a huge weight loss journey and, and, and releasing all of that is absolutely incredible. I love, I love the the story that you tell about the photos.

So, can you say that with me? Tell me 

that 

Jason: again. Yeah, absolutely. So there was a guy called Cal Fussman really awesome guys. I think he’s a Pulitzer prize, winning journalist, really just sharp guy. And he reached out to me through a friend because they were documenting weight loss transformations of people and they were, they were going to be documenting a total of a million pounds released.

Right. So going through all these different stories to gather up a million pounds stories of a million pounds of release. And so he interviewed me about my story and about, you know, kind [00:39:00] of how the weight came on, how the weight came off and what had to transform and all that stuff. And at the end of the interview, he said, ah, great.

So whenever you get a chance, we’d love for you to send us some of your hero pictures. And I said, oh, that’s amazing. I just had a photo shoot. Like two weeks ago. I have a ton of new pictures that I can send to you. And he said, no, I don’t. I don’t think you understand your hero pictures are not your after pictures.

They’re your before pictures. And so now I’m thinking he’s like smoking some jazz cabbage. I’m like, I think, I think you got those mixed up. I don’t think that’s what you think it is. And I said, well, what do you mean by that? He goes, well, the, before pictures, that guy, that person. He’s the one that had to make the courageous decision to actually change something.

He’s the one that had to take that personal responsibility. He’s the one that had to take the first step and the second step and the third step and the 400 step and the 5,000 step that’s the guy that decided to do that. So that’s the hero in the story. And I was just like, holy crap. There’s so many times in my life that I’m waiting until I create the thing or I get the outcome, or I can finally say like, this is my identity.

I’m a [00:40:00] successful entrepreneur, a successful whatever. And to notice how much joy I was robbing for myself, only celebrating myself when I got to the outcome, as opposed to saying I’m celebrating myself or going like going all in and playing full out and turning pro and doing all these things that are scary and edgy and uncomfortable.

That’s the hero. 

jackie: It’s so easy, isn’t it. And , if we can remember that to stand, to stand in our power with that love with that grace, with that compassion and just take the next step forward. Take action for the next step forward and, and celebrate ourselves. I think the world would be such a better place.

Jason: So agree with you. 

jackie: So, Jason, what is the next adventure that you’re embarking on? 

Jason: Well, I mean, you know, I live in LA, so just walking outside on the street, sometimes it’s kind of a big enough adventure. That’s that’s enough edginess for a week sometimes just stepping outside. No, you know, for me, I just I’m trying , [00:41:00] to share and , to document and to educate and hopefully entertain as much as I can.

And so I’m doing that mainly on Instagram. That’s typically where I hang out and people follow me and can kind of continue the conversation there. But I’m at the Jason Goldberg V Jason Goldberg because Jason Goldberg was taken. So I had to get the most pretentious handle I could possibly find VJ. Um, But uh, yeah, that’s where I hang out.

And that’s where I post a lot of my my learnings and my music. 

jackie: And you are so humble, Jason, and I’ll put everything in the show notes, but the Jason Goldberg actually, I think, is so fitting. So grateful that Jason Goldberg was taken because the Jason Goldberg suits you so much better and your Instagram is incredible.

You know, everyone needs to follow you Instagram. I laughed out loud. So I hope you do take strides into the entertainment because the goal of Jason Goldberg’s so good. [00:42:00] Hilarious. 

Jason: Thank you. Thank you for all the love and for, just for your spirit and all the positive energy and the, and the compassion and the kindness and the generosity that just comes at beams out of you.

Like even before we started the interview immediately, it just beams out of me. So thank you for who you’re being. 

jackie: Uh, Thank you so much. Well, you know, we’re a mirror, aren’t we? So yeah, I really appreciate your very generous time. And your storytelling. Your analogy is you have taught me so much in the last half an hour, and I’m so, so grateful to you.

And I can’t wait until we can do this again, but definitely the Jason Goldberg, your book prison break. Incredible. So accomplished. So humble. So graceful. I really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thank you, Jason 

Jason: pleasure. And one last thing I’ll say is, since you mentioned prison break, I’m going to give you a special link just for your listeners, where they can get a free copy of it.

They can get a free digital copy, audio copy, or if they’re in the states, I’ll actually physically send them a paperback. I’m sorry to everybody else in other countries, but, but if you’re not in the U S you [00:43:00] can still get the audio version or the digital version for free. So you can just use the link that I’ll give you.

And it’ll, it’ll be there. 

jackie: You are incredible that he’s so generous. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. I can’t. Thank you enough. Thank 

Jason: you, Jackie. You’re amazing. You are 

jackie: amazing. Thank you, Jason.